Still Running Off at the Keyboard

THE VINTRASIAN LINE OF SUCCESSION - CONNECTING SOME CURIOUS DOTS

In the website I linked yesterday, you read that Eugene Vintras' church, the Eglise Gnostique Apostolique or Vintrasian Carmelite church, used upsidedown crosses and sexual magic, produced miracles of bloodstained hosts, and practiced celestification via "unions de sagesse" or "unions de charite" with the spirit world. The line of succession includes Martinist Jean Bricaud, said to have been a "spiritual heir of Jules Doinel." The website also indicates that this Church of Carmel was accused of Satanism.

Eliphas Levi says of Vintras and his followers:

...they celebrated in their private chapel, which they termed the upper chamber, sacrilegious masses, at which the elect assisted in a state of complete nudity. At a given moment all present fell into a paroxysm, and with tears and cries of "Love, Love," they cast themselves into each other's arms; the rest we may be permitted to suppress. It was like the orgies of the old Gnostics, but without even taking the precaution to extinguish the lights. Alexandre Geoffroi testifies that Vintras initiated him into a kind of prayer which consisted in the monstrous act of Onan, committed at the foot of the altar, but here the accuser is too odious to be believed on his own word. Abbe Chavoz, to whom we mentioned these infamous impeachments, explained that they must be attributed to the hatred of two men who had been expelled from the association for having been guilty on their own part of the acts which they attributed to Vintras. However it may be, moral disorders engender naturally those of a physical kind, and abnormal excitments of the nervous system produce almost invariably eccentric irregularities in morals; if therefore Vintras is innocent, he might have been and may yet be guilty. His sect was condemned formally by [Pope] Gregory XVI in his brief, dated November 8, 1843. (Levi, THE HISTORY OF MAGIC, p. 335) (bolding mine - ct)

That passage from Levi's book, coupled with the charge of Satanism in the website, and the Neoluciferian Church URL, gives a good indication that we are not talking about Christianity here. Pope Gregory's condemnation would seem to clinche it.

The website gives the line of succession for this church. Notice entry #10. Jorge Rodriguez, consecrated by Roger Victor-Herard January 6, 1985. Rodriguez is also listed in the line of succession of the Latin-American Anglican Church. Both lines of succession also include Jean Bricaud, Victor Blanchard, Roger Menard, Robert Ambelain, Roger Pommery, Willer Vital-Herne, and Roger Victor-Herard. The Rodriguez line of succession includes Andre Mauer Andreas between Ambelain and Pommery, which is not part of the Vintras succession. Vintras and Marius Breton are not included in the Rodriguez succession, while J. Rene Vilatte, of whom I have written in the past, is included in a secondary line. The similarity between the two lines of succession is striking nevertheless. Rodriguez consecrated Leonardo Marin-Saavedra for the Latin-American Anglican Church which is in intercommunion with the Catholic Gallican Church of Canada according to David Virtue's website. Make a mental note of the Gallican Church.

In the Touchstone Magazine Mere Comments website is a message from The Rt. Rev. Leonardo Marin-Saavedra about a missionary project which he intends to "be of benefit to all the denominations of Anglican Churches and especially to the people of Latin America." The comment appears approximately 1/3 of the way down the website.

Pictures of Bishop Saavedra can be seen here.

The Eglise Catholique Gallicane du Canada mentions the Gallicans. They are attempting to unite into a unit of Faith the Gallican churches, the Church of Utrecht Old Catholics and the succession of Bishop Varlet. The Most Rev. Leonardo Marin-Saavedra is a member of the Grand Synod.

Returning again to Vintras and the Church of Carmel, the history of the church is contained in Part II of Milko Bogaard's History of the Ecclesia Gnostica. Here you get not only the spiritual aspect of the Vintrasian Church but also the political side.

Here Bogaard claims that Vintras "traveled through the French countryside proclaiming his 'revelation' acquiring many followers, including Roman- and Irvingite Catholic Priests." The Irvingites are precursors of Pentecostalism. Recognized historian of Pentecostalism Vinson Synan speaks of the Irvingites:

By 1830, some preachers began to investigate all reports of miracles that occurred anywhere in the British Isles. A leader in this effort was Edward Irving, pastor of the prestigious Presbyterian Church on London's Regents Square. When a report was circulated that miraculous healings and glossolalia had occurred in Scotland among a small band of believers, Irving hurried to the small Scottish town of Port Glasgow to investigate. In this small town he was amazed to hear a housewife by the name of Mary Campbell speak in tongues. Two of her friends, twin brothers James and George McDonald, not only spoke in tongues, but interpreted their messages into English as well. On April 20, 1830, in the first recorded tongues message and interpretation in modern times, James gave an utterance in tongues and George interpreted it. The message was "Behold He cometh -- Jesus cometh -- a weeping Jesus." In fact, it was said that almost all the subsequent interpretations in England centered on the theme "the Lord is coming soon; get ready to meet Him."

From this time onward, Irving taught that tongues were "the standing sign" and the "root and stem" out of which flowed all the other gifts of the Spirit. To Irving, tongues were the "outward and visible sign of that inward and invisible grace which the baptism of the Holy Ghost conferreth." (THE CENTURY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT: 100 YEARS OF PENTECOSTAL AND CHARISMATIC RENEWAL, p. 22-23)

Bogaard's History indicates Vintras' "masses included visions of empty chalices filled with bleeding hosts, which apparently could remain perfectly preserved for many years." He claims as well that Vintras believed he was "the reincarnated prophet Elijah who would establish a new religious order to proclaim the coming of the Paraclete/the age of the holy ghost [sic]." Quoting a passage from Levi's HISTORY OF MAGIC, Bogaard writes"

In the visions of the new Prophet there were everywhere lilies steeped in blood, Angels habited like knights, Saints disguised as Troubadours. There after came hosts affixed on blue silk. Vintras had bloody sweats, his blood appeared on hosts, where it pictured hearts with inscriptions in the handwriting and spelling of Vintras. Empty chalices were filled suddenly with wine, and where the wine fell the stains were those of blood. ...The Priests of the "Work of Mercy" celebrated the "Provictimal Sacrifice of Mary" in the oratory...

Bogaard has much more of interest in his history. He mentions that Vintras' prophecy echoed the prophesies of Joachim of Flora, that the greatest sacrament in his church was the sexual act that restored the original androgyny, that Vintras established a church in Lyon, France and in Florence, Italy, and that there were branches in Spain, Belgium, and England. He claims that Vintras believed his ministry "was a renewal of the Catholic Tradition."

From the history you can learn that "His Holy Mass was identical to the Roman Catholic one" and the controversy concerned his "gifts". His bleeding hosts and seances brought the opposition of the Pope. The Vintras circle incorporated Black Madonnas into their doctrines, and there was emphasis on the coming of the Holy Spirit. There are hints here as well of Luciferian Theology and Black Magic. An offshoot of his order were the Polish Mariavites who abolished celibacy among the clergy, nuns and monks. A familiar theme in progressive circles of the Roman Catholic Church today.

Bogaard also mentions the Gallican Church in several places in the history. The Rose Croix are mentioned, the Vilatte line of succession is touched on, the Martinists figure in this history as does the O.T.O. Bricaud and Blanchard are part of the line of succession mentioned. He indicates that Vintras was accused of homosexuality.

Part I of Bogaard's History of Ecclesia Gnostica also mentions the Gallican Church, indicating that Ivan-Gabriel Drouet de la Thibauderie is the head of the Gallican Church. Turning to P. R. Koenig's website on the Ordo Templi Orientis Phenomenon, Vilatte is mentioned in the same footnote (54) as Thibauderie, indicating they are both in the same line of succession.

Vilatte, you may remember, is discussed on the website of the Episcopal Diocese of Fond du Lac, Wisconsin.

As the doctrine resulting from Vintras' visions descended through the successions, it may or may not have changed. Each new leader placed his own stamp of approval on the church. Schisms were common and often took place over a point of doctrine or order. The Gallican Church of Canada found in a website today may be significantly different from the church Vintras founded. Or it may not. In any case Pentecostalism and the Gallican Church are very much a part of this picture said by some to be a picture of Luciferianism. While it is true that I don't know what The Rt. Rev. Leonardo Marin-Saavedra teaches in his church, it is still obvious that he has no qualms about linking his church with the Luciferian line of succession, and he leaves no doubt that the Vilatte line of succession is associated as well, via the Church of Utrecht.

Consider this series of connecting dots with the word "ecumenism" prominently included in the consideration. One of the first places where our ecumenists have looked for interreligious dialogue is with the Anglican Church. David Virtue represents the conservative and homosexual side of Anglicanism, and David Virtue links Marin-Saavedra's church.

The Episcopal Diocese of Fond du Lac places the Luciferian line of succession into the mainstream of the history of their diocese. It is in Fond du Lac that the Roman Catholic cluster parish, Holy Family Catholic Commuity, created from four parishes, is raising funds to built the mega-church, that I assume will also be ecumenical once the church is built and operating. Fond du Lac is in the Archdiocese of Milwaukee - Weakland's territory. While the Latin-American Anglican Church has missionary efforts in South America, the clustered Roman Catholic parish in Fond du Lac has a Latin American sister parish.

What does it mean to the Roman Catholic Church that Pentecostalism, which appears to be intrinsic to the Luciferian church, found a home in Roman Catholic Lay Ecclesial Communities and in progressive circles in the Church as a kind of "renewal"? Is the Gallican Church somehow a part of Roman Catholic history? What part will it play in the future of Roman Catholicism? Were the New Ecclesial Communities intended by John Paul II to do an end run around the disintegrating diocesan structure? Were they compromised? Or were they step two in the plan all along--the open ecumenical doorway to the Luciferian church? How does Opus Angelorum figure in this recipe? Is the Church in schism as Cardinal Gagnon claimed in Jason Berry's book; and if it is, which part is still Roman Catholic, and which part is Gnostic Catholic? Questions to keep in mind for now, along with the biggest question...

What part have Popes played in this morphing of Roman Catholicism?

Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us!